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Post by Fulbright on Oct 30, 2008 21:17:51 GMT -5
Mm...so this is going to be a question plus rant post probably I guess. Alright. I'm going to stop here and admit to being a huge vampire fan. Ok? You can all flog me now. I've heard nothing but people 'making fun of' the Darkfallen being added saying they're just an excuse for bad rpers that play vampires to have the lore to back them up. I've heard this everywhere, from a lot of the rpers I know. What I DON'T hear is the actual 'lore' behind them really beyond some vague reference to them being high elves that defected to the lich king and got powers. Obviously they DO drink blood from what they do in game. Yes, there's a lot of 'bad' rpers out there that are vampires/have been using it for a while now. But really...is making a blood drinking character an excuse to automatically label people as a bad rper? I've also heard demon possessed and/or demons/dragons in disguise also make you a bad rper. Why? So there's a LOT of people who are bad at rp that make these kinds of alts. But there's also people that take a lot of time to research why their alts would be this way and take care of the lore and what not. Honestly I'm kind of offended that some people think that if you make one and/or all these sorts of alts you're automatically a bad rper. Why? Because I 'do' have alts that fall in these categories, and I DID do the research to be true to lore, or at least as much as I could. I had no vampires yet because there was no 'real' lore for them but with the Darkfallen coming I don't see why it's such a big stretch to make a character related to that lore once it's revealed. So... am I doomed to be known as a 'bad' rper because I have demon/dragon in disguise alts, or demon possessed alts, or 'vampire' alts? I really think it's unfair to lump everyone into a 'bad' category just because they like certain things. The 'type' of character doesn't make you a bad player/bad rper. What you do with it does, imo. I've read a lot of posts/heard a lot of rpers say if you make a demon possessed character, a dragon in disguise, a vampire, or any of those sorts of things they won't even bother rping with you because you're 'obviously' a bad rper. So I was curious what everyone here thought.
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Destril
Newbie
Gentle Priest
Posts: 19
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Post by Destril on Oct 31, 2008 6:00:30 GMT -5
I don't think it's quite so much the decision to play Darkfallen/demon-possessed/dragon that makes the bad rp'er, Fulbright...in point of fact, I should think a Darkfallen might make for interesting opportunities, exploring how the character deals with the deal he made with the devil, so to speak.
The problem is, quite a few people who use such concepts don't take the lore into account - or the limitations of how that character can and should interact with others, instead using the "lol I'm a dargon so I'm uber-powerful lol" excuse to ride roughshod over their fellow roleplayers' right to make choices about their own characters.
In point of fact, Destril is, at the moment, dealing with the aftermath of ending a demon possession for another character, who played it quite well, from what I could see. A responsible roleplayer is a responsible roleplayer, no matter what they're playing, whether it be a Darkfallen, or one of the rabbits from Eversong Woods that got caught in the crossfire of a young Magister's spell and was transformed into a warlock (just as an example).
It's not so much the concept choice you make, I don't think, as it is how you deal with those choices when interacting with other players and the game world.
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Post by Savrek on Oct 31, 2008 11:50:27 GMT -5
I have to agree with Destril. The problem is, the Vampire Catgirl Emo Whatever cliche is there for a reason. It's very easy and enticing to do something like demon possession, dragons in hiding, halfbreeds looking for a home, evil races turned good (or vice versa) because those are predominent fixtures in much of the genre literature, so all the new RPers think it's a great idea and want to emulate what they read and think it'll be exciting and fun and bring the dramaz! They learn all too quickly that it's really hard to pull something like that off well, and really easy to do it very very badly. The other problem is, a lot of them can't tell the difference. We almost never end up with the character we originally conceived of, and that's because building a character is about choices rather than concept. It's the choices you make after conception that shows your roleplaying talent. The way something like this goes wrong is the player makes a choice to be in your face. It has to be done fast and hard and with as much shouting and fighting as possible. This is wrong. I don't have to tell you that you're playing a person, not a concept, and things happen quietly in real life, drama or no drama. When it gets loud and fast is not often and briefly... To paraphrase some western line by I Forgot Who: "All that buildup for ten seconds of shooting..." and that's exactly it. So don't be a demon-possessed or a dragon in disguise or a darkfallen... be a character who happens to be one of those... and I think you'll do all right. If you slip the idea in quietly, I think you'll find acceptance and even enjoyment from others than if you announced it right away. If you get past the initial "ew! bad!" kneejerk reactions, then it'll be fine. I hope I got my point across all right. I love dragons, and I used to play a dragon in a different freeform game, but I'm hesitant to do it here, although I might one day. But I love that rabbit idea, Destril... can I steal that for the gnome I just created?
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Post by Fulbright on Oct 31, 2008 12:16:33 GMT -5
Destril....that rabbit idea was awesome. Thanks for the posts guys. I have 30 characters on FM, out of that group I have two that are part demon, and two I was considering making blood sucking/vampire like if the Darkfallen lore gets revealed to make it possible. Like Savrek made the point of, they're characters that just 'happen' to be that, I don't go around beating people over the head with it, and it's not in my flag descriptions for them. With the 'plague' making everyone and their brother a zombie the past couple weeks I didn't really see a problem with having a vampire, but then I looked for lore and all I came up with was people getting bashed for wanting to use the Darkfallen and/or making fun of the Darkfallen being added and scoffing at it and anyone who would use it. I was just frustrated to see post after post of people bashing anyone who would try to use any of these concepts for their characters. But that's why I love these boards/the people here, so far excellent points were made. I know there's a lot of bad rp out there and/or the newcomers go with something 'easy' usually and end up butchering it. But...I was hoping by posting I might get people to give some of them a chance, maybe not the obviously bad ones, but don't just laugh and make fun of anyone who would use a concept like that. There's nothing 'new' under the sun, it's all in what you do with it that makes it original, and everyone is an individual so even the most cliche thing can be new and interesting with the right person. I don't like to see RPers hating on other RPers, even the bad ones. At least they're trying instead of sitting there making fun/disrupting things. So when I saw so many people I knew making fun of 'anyone' who would use these concepts I really didn't think that was cool. Don't lump everyone into the bad rper boat please. Just my rambling thoughts...
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Destril
Newbie
Gentle Priest
Posts: 19
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Post by Destril on Oct 31, 2008 14:50:07 GMT -5
Anyone who wants to take the rabbit concept and run with it is more than welcome to. I'm glad you all approve. I think I'd just love to see that "rabbit" at a Pig and Whistle gathering one night. My rogue Phileas would be muchly amused...or baffled, one.
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Post by Savrek on Oct 31, 2008 15:05:22 GMT -5
Yay! Now I just have to find that rabbit seller so I can get my snowshoe rabbit pet and I'm in business. *grin* Can't wait to write up the character intro post.
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Post by Naviel on Nov 2, 2008 14:07:32 GMT -5
Personally I think Darkfallen have all kinds of potential, especially for Death Knights. Blood elf/Night elf DK as a Darkfallen? Hells yeah. And it brings a whole new level to Blood DK. I don't see why people DON'T want to play with this stuff, honestly. It's like everyone's afraid of being anything but normal because otherwise they'll be "bad rpers." IMHO, being "normal" does not mean being boring as all hell, and if that's "good rp" then there is something seriously wrong with that picture.
Hence my gender-confused half-demons and nine-foot troll. I have fun.
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Bigeshu
Raider
Mouth of Peace
"Believe in magic, or I'll kill you." --Mst3k
Posts: 134
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Post by Bigeshu on Nov 3, 2008 22:39:25 GMT -5
I think it's been said above, but there is nothing wrong with playing something off the beaten path. Hell the rabbit idea is pure gold (and I truly wonder how many carrots WoW has now), and the RP with the gender-confused demons has been an absolute blast. In fact, one of my guildmates is a mechano-spliced Worg/Troll who often switches between the personalities. Granted he usually plays the mechano part for laughs but he never intrudes on RP and has only once needed to be asked to tone it down.
Good RP, is like a good book, you can tell one from the other by your reaction to it. If you fall asleep or seethe (but not in the love-to-hate way) then it's bad TO YOU (key word to you). Just don't play with those characters and find someone who plays the way you'd like.
Last point, but some would scoff at me because I have done ERP (mostly with denyse) but that was the result of another player asking me if she could do a seduction storyline and the results of months of build up [Points to you in the back. No giggling].
What was wiccan rule again? Do as you will so long as it harms none. Or to put it bluntly, do what you do, just don't be an asshat.
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Post by Tatimitzi on Nov 4, 2008 14:02:36 GMT -5
Since i made an offhanded comment about this to you ful I'll add my 2 cents.
I love vamps too. Hell Kaiie thinks she's part wolf. My point was there are alot of really crazy rpers out there who instead of trying to be orginal, or trying to make their character have more to them then just "I vant to suck ur blood", are going to use this in their defense. "zomg I can suck blood its in the lore now!"
Personally I think its cool. I also think its funny. I also think we're suddenly going to have a rise of rabid rpers running around SMC emoting /e sucks your blood and becomes your master. Or something similar to all the bad rogue rpers who demand we give them money when they "pick pocket" us.
Its sad that a few can spoil an idea for all. But, that is the way of the world.
I know you Ful and I think you can pull it off in a way that makes it yours. What drives me nuts about the "bad rpers" who do the vampy/were thing is they just don't put any of themselves into it. They just act out and don't try imho.
The point of our characters is to make their stories personal, to build them into something beautiful and be creative. If you happen to be a vampire and can pull it off in a way that makes it interesting, personal and awesome then yay! If you happen to be a vampire and just run around saying you are dracula or lestat.. then... ><
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Post by Nyphistra on Nov 4, 2008 16:12:27 GMT -5
For me, I don't mind the vampires, catgirls, possesed people and such. what I hate the most is thins that Tati said; players emoting "sucks your blood and becomes your master" that's Godmoding RP and very, very bad RP. Those are the people I don't RP with. Those types of emotes never give the other person a chance to RP back. Now we they RP it right, I don't have a problem with it just like i didn't with properly RP'ed pick pockets.
RP isn't about being all powerful, it's about character interaction. if you aren't letting others interact with you then you're just playing a single player game. If that's what you want then just go play Xbox of Playstation I say. The game is boring if you just play alone. It's so much more fun to play with others and RP with others.
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Post by Fulbright on Nov 6, 2008 13:40:43 GMT -5
Are the bad rpers ever concerned with lore though? ;p I mean there were a lot of vampires in game before there was lore (not all of them bad of course!). This might give them the idea if they didn't already have it but if there's a ton of anime stuff being rp'd already like catgirls then I don't see how Blizz adding it to the game/lore is going to make it worse really.
So far from what I've seen they're not 'typical' vampires anyway...so I'm waiting to see what lore comes out from them, whether it's a new version of the plague that can be passed around or if it's just how the lich king made these people like the DKs. The Kara boss was really confusing in his 'attack' in that he mirror'd the person then either drained their blood in a spell like thing or gave them his blood.. I couldn't figure out which it was since he was spouting 'drink my blood' or something similar.
Hmm...but yeah the whole biting you in SMC and being a jerk is a high possibility. That's why there's ignore ;p Now I have to go clean out my ignore lists that are full of people who think RP = screaming/yelling for the entire city to hear you..
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Post by Briyanna on Nov 7, 2008 10:52:23 GMT -5
Personally I think its cool. I also think its funny. I also think we're suddenly going to have a rise of rabid rpers running around SMC emoting /e sucks your blood and becomes your master. Or something similar to all the bad rogue rpers who demand we give them money when they "pick pocket" us. Have to comment on this before I get into the Darkfallen... ... I once had a rogue (a level 10 rogue in stealth mind, I was level 70 by that time) walk up "/e cuts the belt pouch off Briyanna's belt and runs off." Then opened a trade and demanded 25 gold. ... The clincher, which I pointed out openly: Briyanna was not wearing a belt, and thus, no belt pouch. She was wearing her rings, her neck, her trinkets, her cloak and her robe. All other slots, including her shoes, were -empty-. Even funnier, was that you could tell from the appearence of the robe (Simple Black Dress) that she wasn't wearing a belt. God-moding is bad, particularly when you steamroller over the obvious XD And now onto a real reply. I'm in agreement with the majority here. Bad RP is Bad RP, no matter how you slice it. I've had a paladin try to god-mode curing Bri of a deadly poison when he knew full well it was scripted that someone else needed to do it. (Then again, said paladin was one that I wish would leave Feathermoon altogether.) I've had low level characters insist that they could totally kill my character off because they have a sword and I can't block them (regardless that..y'know.. there's a hunter, two paladins a mage and a warlock that I'm talking to nearby; they wouldn't defend me or anything, nor could the paladins heal me, etc.) Same thing with demons, cat girls, dragons, vampires, etc. Tarath, Bri's current other half, had been demon-possessed until recently. Every once in a while, he'd do something weird. He'd hear voices. He'd talk to himself. He'd speak in tongues not his own. But he wasn't uber-powerful. He... was just a little odd. Siabhre, my guild's former leader was half-dragon. He collected things. He seduced (or tried to anyway) anyone he thought pretty (male/female/horde/alliance, it totally didn't matter). But he loved his wife and his children, his friends and of course, the guild. Neither of them made huge dramatic proclimations of these facts. It was learned through many, often long RPs. IMO, that is what separates the good RPers from the bad. Thus, anything within the Lore is fair game. I may just roll a priest who was a bunny that got played with by a warlock with Alchemy to have vampiric tendancies that then got transformed into a humanoid by some unsuspecting and bumbling mage. Take that, RP community! I'm a vampiric bunny-girl. ... .... That did not just come from my brain, my fingertips.... uh. ..... I'll be over in the corner scrubbing my brain with bleach
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Post by Savrek on Nov 7, 2008 12:25:00 GMT -5
Thus, anything within the Lore is fair game. I may just roll a priest who was a bunny that got played with by a warlock with Alchemy to have vampiric tendancies that then got transformed into a humanoid by some unsuspecting and bumbling mage. Take that, RP community! I'm a vampiric bunny-girl. ... Aww.. I'm so totally doing the bunny thing! No fair! Although mine's a gnome inventor who was working on a secret weapon to get rid of the troggs and via a catastrophic accedent had his mind switched with his pet bunny's... and then Gnomer fell, and all his notes were destroyed... and then he found out the switch isn't permenant, or stable.. so their minds will switch.. then switch back.. then switch again... and so on. Poor bunny...
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Post by Naviel on Nov 7, 2008 15:01:47 GMT -5
I feel like I must apologize for Naviel. And his sister.
They're an odd pair and it took a long time to get them to a point where the theory worked and I was actually happy with it. I'm pretty sure I put you guys through a lot in doing so, however. It was painful. And I'm sorry. I just hope they're an actual, interesting pair of people now. Writing them--ESPECIALLY Phantas, that little ball of chaos--is helping with that.
So again, thank you for helping me improve my RPing skills by putting up with me.
Just had to say that in the midst of all this stuff about bad RP crap.
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Bigeshu
Raider
Mouth of Peace
"Believe in magic, or I'll kill you." --Mst3k
Posts: 134
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Post by Bigeshu on Nov 7, 2008 20:00:30 GMT -5
*raises an eyebrow* I don't know how long you've been playing Navi and Phantas, but I've always enjoyed them. When you dropped the "bombshell" that Navi was really a guy I'll admit I was surprised, but you told Danzy after a long period of association and friendship. It didn't consume your RP and it made later stories interesting (Thael). Again though, I'm speaking from my probable inexperience. On that token though... If I ever annoyed you by preaching as Danzy in public areas. Sorry about it. At least I'm not emoting /e converts CHARNAME to his cult.
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